New Paradigm Show featuring Live Q&A with Kesha Rogers

February 9, 2016

New Paradigm Show featuring Kesha Rogers February 10th, 2016

Tune in live this Wednesday at 5 pm EST for a special New Paradigm Show featuring Kesha Rogers. Kesha Rogers, the two-time democratic nominee for U.S. Congress (TX-22), who led the fight against Obama's criminal shutdown of NASA and, for a dramatic expansion of the space program, will discuss the necessity of the space program for the future of mankind. Today, while NASA suffocates under the Obama administration, China has emerged as a world leader in space with their Chang'E lunar exploration program. Join us for a live discussion with Kesha, Wednesday, February 10th, 5 pm Eastern. If you'd like to participate send your thoughts or questions to [email protected] or ask questions live using the YouTube live chat function.


BENJAMIN DENISTON:  Hello, welcome to a special live edition of the LaRouche PAC's New Paradigm for Mankind Show.  I'm Benjamin Deniston.  I'm joined by my Basement colleague Megan Beets.  And today for this week, we're very happy to be joined by Policy Committee member, Kesha Rogers, who's joining us via Google Hang-outs live from Houston.

Today, what we have for you is basically a response to Mr. LaRouche's emphasis on putting a revival of the space program back up front and center for the United States right now.  And this is something, really in the last week, he started to emphasize increasingly: The revival of the space program as the central driver for saving the United States' economy right now.

So there's really no better way to address this issue, than by introducing Kesha, because she has played a critical role in fighting for the defense of NASA, the defense of the space program in this recent period, fighting against Obama's brutal attacks on NASA, and fighting for the defense of the U.S. space program.

If our viewers are not aware, I just want to emphasize that Kesha has run a series of very successful Congressional campaigns, which didn't only grab attention in her district, didn't only grab attention in Texas, didn't only even grab attention nationally.  But internationally, Kesha became an international figure, with her campaigns for the Federal Congressional 22nd District of Texas, in 2010, and again in 2012, securing the Democratic nomination both times, running as a Democrat on the policies of impeaching the Democratic President of the United States, Barack Obama, and saving NASA.  And then she followed those two highly successful campaigns for the House with a Senate campaign in 2014, where she forced a run-off in the Democratic primary, despite being outspent massively, and being attacked by the Democratic Party establishment, the Obama hacks, as I believe they're known in Texas.  But despite that, winning major support on her initiative of fighting against the Obama Administration, and fighting for NASA.  As I said, this at the time, and still today, her success in these campaigns shows the real resonance of the real American Spirit, the real American people towards NASA, towards the space program, towards and orientation towards the future, and away from the suicidal program that Obama has set this nation on.

In this recent period, again, Mr. LaRouche said, "Let's get this space program going again," and he said, "Kesha's going to be our key figure leading the charge from down in Texas."  So I know Kesha has some thoughts for us to open up the discussion today, and we're happy to join her.  I just want to add also, this is a live discussion, so if you're watching now, please feel free to send in your questions.  You can put them in on the YouTube Chat, or you can send them to [email protected] If we have time today, we'll be happy to engage our audience in the discussion.  To open us off, let's let Kesha give us some thoughts here.

KESHA ROGERS:  Well, I think it's important to say, "Houston we do have a problem."  And this should be a very fun, exciting program back and forth, but I think it's important to situate the discussion by first of all by getting our listeners to understand, the launching of this initiative around the development of a space program, and the importance of it at this period in time, is that when Mr. LaRouche and I collaborated in launching the campaign and working in 2010, to put forth the initiative, after Obama cancelled the Constellation program, what you saw there, was a dismantling, — and you have to go back to, again, and I've been stating this in many of the various broadcasts that we've had so far — what the intention was.  And the intention going back to that dismantling of the space program in 2010, is based on the fact that you had a complete ripping apart of what was a visionary perspective of leadership, under President John F. Kennedy, that had been taken down under the Obama administration, which was the intention to put forth a policy of zero growth.

And I just have to say this:  Yesterday, I attended, which kind of puts the thing in perspective, I attended an event called "The State of NASA."  Many people saw this event, it was aired live with the NASA director Charlie Bolden as well as others, and the media representatives were able to go into various NASA facilities across the country and visit and tour these facilities; and get a briefing on the budget of NASA from the NASA representatives, the NASA director.

And what was just astonishing to me, was the fact that the President cuts the entire budget, continuing to cut the budget to the Orion mission, the manned flight mission, the continuing to dismantle the Moon mission — matter of fact there's no Moon mission any longer; and at the same time cutting all fusion programs, cutting programs to certain universities, such as Rice University here in Texas, where people know the significance of Rice University; where President John F. Kennedy, went to Rice University, laid out a vision "We go to the Moon, and we do these things not because it's easy, but because it's hard."  And where you had a real vision, an inspiration for the entire population. The director of the space program lays out the program that "we are closer than ever," he says, "to getting to the Red Planet."

I find this a paradox from the standpoint, that we've cut all missions to go back to and industrialize and actually develop the Moon.  There's no discussion in the United States of this whatsoever in policy.  But yet, and still, "we're closer than ever to getting to Mars"?  And that his statement was something to the effect that President Obama has laid out "visionary leadership" for the space program.  Well, — I have to, you know, — I think anybody who believes that probably believes snow is black!  I don't know, maybe Bertrand Russell has won people over. But I think that's complete insanity.

And we have to get to the truth of the matter here, which is, our responsibility — and this gets at the heart of my campaign — has been to define what a true vision has to be and must be.

And when it comes to the space program, you have to go back and look at the history in terms of, visionary leadership started with those people, who had a conception of the human mind that reached out far into the destiny of our Solar System.  And it wasn't just a profit mechanism, or it wasn't just about budgets and cutting budgets, or trying to go to space "on the cheap."

But we did whatever was necessary —  failure not an option — to make sure that the progress of mankind in space was the number-one priority.  And so, visionary leadership, that is the ultimate question at hand here, and that's really what we're discussing here.  That's what has been completely rejected from our society, no longer exists.  If someone says that Obama's "visionary leadership," in expressing that, they are completely out of their minds.

And I want to give a real example of visionary leadership, and I'm going to do this quickly here, because I'd like to have some further discussion.  But people remember, recently I was bringing up the discussion of the great spirit and mind of Krafft Ehricke, a pioneer in space flight, rocketry, engineering; and Krafft Ehricke worked alongside and was a student developing the ideas of von Braun and what really made our space program and the vision that took us to the Moon, with Apollo 11, through the Saturn V rocket.

But he expressed something, again, which was a higher order of magnitude in terms of the philosophy and mindset in what he understood was the basis of the space program, which was, again, the defense of the human mind, and the creativity of the human mind.  But he says it more beautifully himself.

First of all, what I'd like to do is refer people back to — and I've read this before — Krafft Ehricke's Anthropology of Astronautics.  And this is where he outlines his three fundamental laws.  And let me just review those three fundamental laws, again, which are [as written]:

"1. Nobody and nothing under the natural laws of this universe imposes any limitations on man, except man himself.

"2. Not only the Earth, but the entire Solar System, and as much of the universe as he can reach under the laws of nature, are man's rightful field of activity.

"3. By expanding throughout the universe, man fulfills his destiny as an element of life, endowed with the power of reason and the wisdom of the moral law within himself."

Now, he goes on in this work, and this is very beautiful; this gets to the very conception of what visionary leadership is; and how, even Krafft Ehricke himself, as I stated before, warned that a society that turned against true progress and adopted a trajectory toward zero growth, limits to growth, that contradict what he said in his first fundamental law, that "Nobody and nothing under the natural laws of this universe [can] impose any limitations on man, except man himself," then you would see a society that would cease to recognize its true human potential.

And let me just say, just one expression by Krafft Ehricke, that really highlights this quality of the nature of mind, is stated very well in this quote from his Anthropology of Astronautics, which says: [as written] "The conception of space travel," and he's talking about what is space travel; what is the space program?  This, what he says here should be the motto for the space program:

"The concept of space travel carries with it enormous impact, because it challenges man on practically all fronts of his physical and spiritual existence. The idea of traveling to other celestial bodies reflects to the highest degree the independence and agility of the human mind. It lends ultimate dignity to man's technical and scientific endeavors. Above all, it touches on the philosophy of his very existence. As a result, the concept of space travel disregards national borders, refuses to recognize differences of historical or ethnological origin, and penetrates the fiber of one sociological or political creed as fast as that of the next."

And given the circumstances that we find society in right now, the continued escalation of conflict and tension among nations, what we're seeing in terms of the continued drive of warfare or the escalation against Russia, against China; and, Mr. LaRouche made this point very clear, that what we're seeing right now is not an attack on nations per se, not an attack on Russia, China, or to push the world on the brink of thermonuclear war against these nations, but it is an attack on this very conception, of the human mind.

So, we have to get back to an idea of what a vision is, and what visionary leadership is, and that's what we're going to talk about some more here, in terms of our discussion.  And one thing is that, I would just say, I think we've lost a sense of play in our society.  And you think about all of these individuals who have made great contributions to the development of our space program:  How did they start?  I mean, they started off, just as young boys, wanting to play with rockets.  Or they got inspired by the space program.  And now the young boys and girls today, what kind of inspiration do they have?  What do they have to be inspired around?

And you look at the opposite or contrary to having a society which promote creativity and promotes the idea that you can become anything that you want to, to a society that has perpetuated death, drugs.  And it was interesting that someone called me today and referenced the fact that, you take an example in the United States right now of what's happening with the drug culture and the death culture.

And one of the towns in Virginia, where you had an increase in heroin use, used to be a very strong coal mining area.  And this is McDowell County, Virginia, was an area which was brought to my attention, and something I'd like to look at more.  But what's interesting about it, is that when you use this as an example of where you had the potential of a real visionary leadership from the standpoint, that this was an area where a young boy had a vision back during the period of the space program and the launching of Sputnik, and he wanted to be a rocket scientist; and there's a movie and a book that came out called The Rocket Boys and "October Sky."  But the point is that it reflected the fact that you had a situation where, when there was vision that was put forth, when we had industrial development, we had a program for increase in the productive powers in our society, and this person ended up going into the space program later on in life, and had a profound effect on the population which he came from in Virginia,  — his name was Homer Hickam; and at the same time you look at what's happened, the fact that now, this same area, which produced this great mind who ended up being in the space program, worked in Huntsville, Alabama, developing designs for the space program and now the area where he came from is one of the biggest areas of heroin addiction; one of the areas which Obama has targeted in terms of shutting down the coalmining, shutting down industrial development.

So the point is, we have lost our vision.  This is intentional, and we have to get back to reality of where we want our nation to go.  And we definitely have an idea about that!

DENISTON:  When Mr. LaRouche first started going after Obama, and calling out the crimes of the Obama Administration, it was when Obama started to move for the cancellation of the space program, that Mr. LaRouche finally said, "That's it.  We've got to call for this guy's removal from office."  I think what you're bringing up here, that's the level at which we have to recognize the importance of the space program.  It's not just some, I think you said it very well, it's not just a way to make a little money, or develop some technologies.  This is a necessary expression of what mankind is.  This is a necessary, especially for this stage, of human development.  Right.  The nature of mankind is to always progress, to move into new stages, new levels, new higher qualities of interaction with the natural world, so to speak.  And we're at the point where that's taking us into space, and the individually referenced Krafft Ehricke, he was somebody that worked with Mr. LaRouche, with our organization, one of the earlier space pioneers, the people who really had the ground floor, so to speak, in the development of a real scientific conception of where, how mankind can move into this new frontier, develop this new domain.

I think it's just critical that we fight to make sure that this is understood on the right level — that this is not an optional.  We're not doing this because we want to make sure that engineers have jobs, or something.  This is an absolutely critical part of the necessary progress of mankind.  And that's what Krafft Ehricke understood.  That's what other key leading early visionaries in the space program understood.  And that's what Mr. LaRouche understands, and that's why he said, when Obama went after the space program, that's it.  We must remove this guy from office, because why?  He's killing the future.  He's already been killing people in the now.  He's been destroying the country, and now he's moving to destroy, kill the future potential, the future existence of mankind, by cutting off access to the new frontiers, to the development of the next level for the economy for the nation.

This is why this is coming up again now.  If we're going to reverse the current crisis, if we're going to address the situation we're in, we're not going to do it by just looking to the past.  We have to look towards what is the future that mankind must create.  And that is intimately connected with space, with mankind no-longer simply being an earthling, with an earth-based identity, and getting out into the Solar System, to start.  There's a lot of places to go, a lot of real estate to develop out there.  For some humble beginnings, we have this nice Solar System available to us, and we have to start to take that seriously, for the future existence of mankind.  We have to lay down the declaration at this point, here and now, that this is the life or death issue for the future of our country.  And this is where the world is going.

That's the other stark contrast, kind of in parallel with this time-frame of your campaigns, Kesha, has been the emergence of China, as a leading, if not the leading, orientation towards space exploration in the world.  A number of other nations rallying around the leadership provided by China.  Russia moving towards closer collaboration with China.  So you see this natural human tendency to move forward, to progress, emerging, and establishing itself, really emphatically under China's leadership, as the direct contrast to what we're seeing with the current Obama program.

MEGAN BEETS:  Yeah, and for all of the Obama Administration's posturing about STEM, STEM in education, educating all these people to learn about engineering and technology and mathematics.  These kids are graduating, and a lot of them are looking to China.  A lot of them are leaving the United States to go to China, because that's the only place that you can get employed.  And they're welcoming them there.  They have a lot to do, a lot of positions to fill.  Actually, I think it's worth for our viewers, and also just to add to the discussion here, going through very briefly what China has actually been up to.  I think most people don't know, and one element of the reason that people don't know is because our space program at NASA is banned from working with Chinese space scientists.  But that's a whole other issue.

Let me just briefly review this.  China has a decades-long history in space technology.  They did some work in rocketry following, throughout the '50s, especially after the Soviet Union got Sputnik up into space, they engaged in really ramping up their missile and rocket program, but it really wasn't until the early 1990s that China's space program began taking off, so to speak, in earnest.  It was in 1992 that they officially began their manned-space program.  That's the Shenzhou Program, which is currently active to this day.

So I can just go through a couple of examples here, so people can see on their screens.  This is the launch of the Shenzhou 5 Mission, which was the first time that China put a man into space - and that was in 2003.  So roughly ten years after they began their manned-program.  The Shenzhou 6 was in 2005, and then in 2008, you had the Shenzhou 7, which was the first EVA, the extra-vehicular activity, I think, the first space walk of China, which was live-streamed back to Earth on live TV in China. And I would really encourage people, if you just, you can just search on YouTube or on the Internet, the first Chinese space walk, and you can see the footage of people participating in this, taken on the exit from the vehicle, on the total excitement the people expressed.

Following that in rapid succession you had the launching of the first component of the Chinese Space Station, the Tiangong 1, which was launched in 2011.  And from that point on, all of the manned-missions became coupled with the space station, with the stops at the space station.  In 2011, shortly after they launched the first part of the space station, they launched an unmanned vehicle to go dock with the space station.

Just one year later, they launched the Shenzhou 9, which was a three-man crew, including the first woman, Chinese woman in space, which docked with the space station.  They went inside the space station, took pictures, broadcast it back down to Earth. Here's a picture of it, for people to see.

And then just one year after that, in 2013, you had the Shenzhou 10, which was the second Chinese woman in space, this woman here, who entered the Tiangong 1, and taught a physics class to sixty million Chinese students, back on Earth.

The next phase of the Shenzhou, which will be the fifth, or maybe it's the sixth now, manned-mission is going to launch this year.  So a couple important things are happening this year. China is going to put up a second stage of their space station program, the Tiangong 2, which is going to be a more developed space lab, something which is going to be more suitable for scientific experiments.  So that will be launched this year.  And then that will be followed by the Shenzhou 11, which is scheduled to come and dock with the Tiangong 2.

In terms of their Space Station program, the third phase, which will be basically the core module of a space station.  Now all of this is on a smaller scale, a small scale.  The third phase, that's scheduled to launch in the early 2020s, which is also the time that they plan to launch and construct a full-sized space station.  And that conveniently coincides with the estimated decommissioning of the International Space Station, which, so far, there are no plans to replace.  That's their manned-program.

The third active part of the Chinese space program, which is also a very, very important part, is their Lunar Exploration Program, which was really due to the efforts of one key figure — there were others — but one key figure Ouyang Ziyuan, who is in his 70s, who has worked on the Moon for much of his adult life, and it's really his passion that got this program officially established in China, just in 2004.  So the Lunar Exploration Program began then.  In 2007 you had the launch of the first Chang'e spacecraft, which went to the Moon, and orbited the Moon, and sent back a very high-definition 3D mapping of the Moon, including resources, and other things.

The Chang'e-2, which went up in 2010, also did another 3D mapping, but then the spacecraft, after it completed that mission, it was sent out into deep space, and it's currently en route to go rendezvous with an asteroid in 2019.  Here's an image of the planned Space Station.

Then in 2013, there was something, which a lot of our viewers might remember, which was the Chang'e-3, the Chinese soft landing on the surface of the Moon.  We've crash landed things into the Moon.  For example, there was it called ...

DENISTON:  On purpose.

BEETS:  On purpose, yes.  It was LCROSS..  So we crashed-landed just a few years ago something into the South Pole of the Moon, the intention being, to throw up a bunch of material to see if there was water.

But this is a soft landing, and there has not been a soft landing on the Moon since 1976, which was the Soviets.  So since 1976, for almost 40 years, nothing.

So the Chinese soft-landed this lander.  It contained a rover, which you see a picture of here, and then another one that I really like, which is the rover named Yutu, which is heading off into the distance, to begin its work.   So that was the Chang'e-3.  The lander itself also contained a special camera, which could image the sky in the UV ultra-violet range, which sent back this beautiful picture of the Earth's plasma sphere, which hadn't been imaged in this kind of way ever, by anybody before.

Now, just in just 2014, the Chinese sent out the next phase of the Chang'e program, which was something which was a precursor to their sample return mission, which I'll say something about in a moment.  This was the Chang'e-5T1, t for test.  So this was very important.  It tested capabilities that China hadn't ever attempted before.  So this craft, the Chang'e-5T, went to the Moon, circled the Moon, sent back this beautiful picture from the far side of the Moon, looking back to Earth.  And then it sent a Return Capsule from lunar orbit back to Earth, which performed a re-entry, and then crash-landed and it was recovered by Chinese scientists, in the desert, which was the first time China has ever done anything like this.  They were able to recover this little sample they had sent up into this craft.  So that was the 5T1.  Now that's the latest part of their lunar program.

There are two more phases which are planned for the next couple of years ahead.  The first one is the Chang'e-5, which is a sample return mission.  So they'll send this craft to lunar orbit.  A lander will descend, automatically sample some of the lunar soil, lunar rocks, return up to lunar orbit, rendezvous with the craft, and then get sent back to re-enter to Earth.  So again, nothing like this has happened since the 1970s.

Now, the following phase, which we can discuss in more detail, Ben, I know you've been looking into it, is, so that's 2017.  In 2018, they'll send up the Chang'e-4, which I know that's out of order.  The 4 was going to be a backup to 3.  They didn't need it, so now they've assigned it a new mission.

And the mission of Chang'e-4 is going to be a soft landing on, not the near side of the Moon, but the far side of the Moon, which is something that nobody's ever done before.  It's not just that it hasn't been done in 40 years.  Nobody's ever landed anything on the far side of the Moon.  And it's particularly desirable to do this, one, because it's never been done before, but also because the far side of the Moon has some very unique characteristics, which are going to be very, very interesting and important to us to study.  So that's planned for 2018.

Like I said, we can discuss that more.  But I would just emphasize that the pace at which China has been carrying this program out, perhaps it's not as fast as the crash program of the Apollo, it hasn't really needed to be, but they have been making very decisive progress on exactly what they've set out to do, because they have a total dedication to develop this capability within China, but not for China.  The idea is for all of mankind.  And they've been very explicit about this, and they've invited international participation in the missions.  They're involving the public in this with this vision of doing something for mankind that mankind has never done before.  I think that's something which people should really look to in terms of where on the planet is this kind of frontier of progress?  Where does the dedication to this kind of this quality of progress for mankind as a species exist?  Well, it's being spearheaded by China.

ROGERS:  Well, that's quite exciting, because I was just thinking about, when these great endeavors are taking place, it's never been for the benefit of one nation.  It's always been for the benefit of the betterment of mankind.  And I was thinking about when I was referencing the space pioneer from earlier, just in terms of thinking about, who would have thought that the Russian space flight, in terms of the first orbiting of the Sputnik, would actually have such a profound impact on this young man right out in the middle of western Virginia.

And you never know who you are inspiring and who you are touching, just in terms of that.  That is a human characteristic. Anyway, when I was referencing earlier, Mr. Hickam, that reminded me that Russia was not doing what they did for their own benefit. Actually, we took that, and we used that as an inspiration.

Today, we have to use China as an inspiration, and when you're looking at what China is doing in some of the images that you put out there, and made me think about Krafft Ehricke's industrial development of the Moon, and how I'm thinking, wow, with China about to carry out this vision where Krafft Ehricke had this imagery and this development, where he put together a whole picture of how the Moon would be developed, and he developed whole cities.  One was called the Selenopolis.

BEETS:  Right, yeah, I have a picture of it pulled up here.

ROGERS:  Yeah, there you go!  And in there you have on the Moon, whole industrial bases on the Moon.  You have high-speed rail systems, kind of, I guess you would call it; astronaut museums; you have a whole city.  But the whole intention of it.

And you think about China's development of the Silk Road Plan and the development of the entire Asia-Pacific development of the nuclear high-speed rail systems, the connection between nations, and how that was the vision of Krafft Ehricke to go back and forth between interstellar space.  Human beings would not be committed to Earth itself, but would go into, what he called, three and four-dimensional space, and would be able to travel back and forth.  China's development of its Silk Road Project can be taken, I think what we're seeing is them taking this perspective all the way into space, where we're going to have to develop the systems that would allow for travel between low Earth orbit and the Moon, and into other planets, per se, and how do we actually do this?

Well, what they've set into motion right now is pretty exciting, looking at, hey, are they going to be the ones who are going to be developing colonies and developing cities, per se, on the Moon.  They're already developing beautiful cities, and the intention here on Earth, and now we can actually travel between these areas, just as Krafft Ehricke had envisioned.  So that's something people should think about.  Is that far-fetched?  No, not at all.

DENISTON:  Really, it's the needed affirmation for the necessary understanding of the role of the human mind, human creativity, in the Universe, that we're not limited to Earth. We're not bound to our biological existence on Earth, so to speak.  This is mankind's very nature, to continually transform his relationship to the Universe.

We need a fundamental cultural paradigm shift in the United States, and this is a necessary expression of that.  Mankind is not, despite what many people now believe, due to the recent decades of degeneration, Barack Obama, most emphatically, mankind is just not another animal species here on this planet.  We're not limited as just some smart animal that's going to be here and go at some point.  Mankind is a unique creative force in the Universe, not just on the planet Earth, and we have to exercise that.  We have to express that.  We have to continue to create that, and bring that forth in new and higher order ways.  And whenever we don't do that, societies degenerate, and the more advanced you have, the society you have, the faster and the harder it degenerates.

Kesha, your reference to Krafft Ehricke is very important, because he understood that.  He said, as you brought up in the Friday discussion, on the Friday webcast, he defined the scientific reality of an extraterrestrial imperative, that it's an imperative. It's a necessity.  It's needed that mankind fulfill this mission of going out into space, because mankind, by his very nature, cannot stagnate, cannot try and sustain some fixed level of existence.  Mankind exists as a creative process, and we must always continue to move to the next higher levels of creative development.  In his own framework, again as you referenced, forecast the type of, in a sense, the type of chaos you're seeing now, of conflict over limited resources, increasing geopolitical type conflicts over attempting to control some finite bounded set of resources, because you're stopping fundamental revolutions that increase the net amount of wealth and resources, what have you, available to mankind as a whole.

If you stop that type of progress, you inherently set the kind of trajectory that Bush/Cheney, and now Obama, have been carrying forward of this really imperial style move towards conflict and war.  You can't just say, "We want to just have no war.  Get rid of that."  You have to have some conception of what should mankind be doing.  What's your purpose for being here? What's your purpose for existing?  What's the purpose of your nation existing?  We knew that under Kennedy.  Kennedy had a sense of that.  Krafft Ehricke had a sense of that.  China now clearly has a sense of that.  The challenge is now on the American people, you want, as LaRouche warned earlier this week, you want to follow through as the new Roman Empire?  The new collapsed Roman Empire, you want to follow that path?  Or do you want to create a new future?  And if you want to do that, this is the direction to go.  And the Moon is just sitting there waiting for us.

BEETS:  Actually, Krafft Ehricke wrote in, at least one paper I know of, from the 1970s, but maybe other places too, he wrote that man's destiny is to develop off of the planet, to begin developing the Moon, the resources of the Moon, uplifting them to fulfill new potentials they couldn't fulfill before.  He also envisioned things like these space station type things, very large space station type things, where man wouldn't necessarily be dependent on the Moon, or some planet, existing.  He could actually subsist with his own development. And he said once you reach that point, man has become, in a sense, a new species. You'd want an Earth-bound species, Krafft actually said, instead of homo sapiens, man will become homo extraterrestres [ph]. And it does beautifully embody the fact that man is not his flesh.  Yes, we have a fleshly body that we use to get stuff done, but that's not man.  Man is this creative process which makes things happen in the Universe that have never happened before, that's able to realize discoveries of principles that are out there in the Universe, that are, as LaRouche said, looking to grip us to be discovered, so that we can actually apply them in ways that have never happened before.  That's man's destiny.  If you limit man to Earth, exactly, you're dooming him to the kind of collapse we're seeing today.

ROGERS:  Yeah, well just think about that from the standpoint of Lyndon LaRouche's history, and fight, and as we're discussing here, I'm just thinking about where we would have been as a society, had, what was adopted under President Reagan, with LaRouche's Policy for the SDI, being put fully into effect, in terms of what its real intention was; if Reagan hadn't been shot and kind of taken out of the picture to a certain extent, and LaRouche put in prison.  That was a real setback.  It was a setback like the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, and this is something that really puts this fight into perspective, in terms of what we're really dealing with.

If anyone has an authority over having a vision, and really fighting for that at all cost, it's been Mr. LaRouche, because we would not be in this position where we have a threat to the existence of mankind, where we're facing a threat of thermonuclear war that can wipe out the entire human species, and everything that it has represented.  If we had followed through, in a real way, with Kennedy's vision, but also, Mr. LaRouche's vision.  The collaboration in planetary defense, and what he did with the Strategic Defense Initiative, contrary to popular opinion, — I should put it this way — There's a lot of misconceptions about what it actually represented.  But, what it truly represented, is what we see China and Russia putting forth right now.  What they're putting forth was actually inspired by Mr. and Mrs. LaRouche in their decades-long work.

So when Obama has come and tried to rip apart that vision, again, on behalf of the British Empire, and on behalf of Wall Street speculators, well I think that we want to really inspire people by it.  What we'd like to do with this discussion that we're having here, and anybody who's listening is, what Mr. LaRouche was able to develop, in terms of pulling together a cadre of scientists, where, what happened to our space program? Why did people give up?  What was the intention between prior to, should I say, the 2010 takedown of the Constellation Program? Where are those people today?  What are you willing to do to fight, to regain that dignity, and that vision back for our nation again?

We can't sit here and say, oh, well, all hope is lost now. I think that all of the universities, that all of the scientists, and so forth, that have just kind of went and hid under a rock, need to come out, and we have to form a collaboration, and a cadre of people who recognize that the only chance that we have right now of saving the space program, is first of all, we have to get to a fundamental basis, that without a directive toward a Moon-based development, as China clearly recognizes, it's never going to happen.  The person who has been really attacked and who they tried to take out of the picture, is LaRouche; because everybody knows in the United States what he has represented in terms of setting forth a real directive toward where we have to take mankind, from the highest level of the development of the mind of man being the central focal point of everything that represents an idea of what our commitment to the development of what mankind is.

So I think that's a challenge to put on the table.  I know we were talking about this earlier, Ben, and Megan, and I. That's the objective, and I think this is sort of a call-out to all those who might be in the scientific community, or anywhere, that the obligation right now is that we're at the brink, and if we don't pull this thing together, and win, for mankind, and that's what we're talking about, with the space program, then it's going to be lost, and that cannot be allowed to happen.

DENISTON:  Yeah, I think that's the challenge, I think we want to leave people with.  I think that's very well said.  Like you just presented, Mr. LaRouche has put down the gauntlet, put out the call, and we're here heeding it.  We're rallying other people to heed it, and I think, probably, Kesha, your remarks there is probably a good place to leave off on, because I think this is where it's on the American people now to respond, to step up to this reality.

So, unless you have any further remarks, I think that's probably the best place to leave off the discussion.  And put it to our audience, you guys got to get active and help to make this happen.  Now's the time to do this.

I know Megan and I are very happy to have the chance to have you on, Kesha, and probably won't be the last time.  Can maybe even have you here in person.  But thank you for joining us for our special show this week, and I'm sure we'll hear more from you.  And we'll be back next week with the New Paradigm Show.  So thank you for now, and see you next time.



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